mms panhard bar on my fox

[mustangfreak]

What's up guys I came accross a pan hard bar for a good deal and I was just wondering what should I expect by installing this on my car and is it worth the money? Will this eliminate body roll by alot or is they're other upgrades I should do before jumping to a pan hard bar

[Jose]

What's up guys I came accross a pan hard bar for a good deal and I was just wondering what should I expect by installing this on my car and is it worth the money? Will this eliminate body roll by alot or is they're other upgrades I should do before jumping to a pan hard bar

Powershift

Use to run a TQ arm and PHB, will get him to chime in.

But i im happy with my setup.

[mustangfreak]

What set up are you running?

[Powershift03]

Yep... a Panhard bar, and Torque Arm, are the best way to make that 8.8 SRA handle like it should! It will also help in drag racing, as it keeps your rear end solid. I've gotten street cars into the low 10 second times with them, and Jose himself can testify as to how well they work. Don't let anyone tell you they are only for road racing.

Here is a link to some stuff about Panhard bars on MM's site... lots of other good reading on the site too.....

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=tech_rear_susp_panhard

And, in the early 90's we won the Pro 5.0 class at Famosa, 3 years in a row, running a Vortech supercharged Fox coupe.. with an MM Torque arm & Panhard bar. We also used the same car to tear around Laguna Seca, and drive on the street back home!

[Jose]

What set up are you running?

I dont have a fox body.

But i got alot of mm goodies for my cobra. And i've surprised alot of people at the track with it.

Like Brian sais, take a look at their site/products.

Great for the street/strip :pop:

[mustangfreak]

Ya I read that this morning I just wanted to hear from somebody that ran a phb set up how stiff will the chassis be? Cus I'm looking to make as stiff as possible I hate body roll

[foxforce1]

i have a panhard bar on my fox. It works great and I can get on the gas faster when exiting a turn. Do you have subframe connectors? That should be your first mod to stiffen up your fox. Good struts and shocks are also important. Just open up the MM catalog and go nuts.

[mustangfreak]

Mms subframe connectors are my next suspension mod and I wish I could go nuts ont the mms catalog lol how about a stut tower brace is it a noticibable upgrade

[Powershift03]

Subframe connectors are a MUST for Fox cars. The strut tower brace isn't going to be a noticeable improvement on the street. Save your money, and put it towards other suspension items.

[mustangfreak]

Subframe connectors are a MUST for Fox cars. The strut tower brace isn't going to be a noticeable improvement on the street. Save your money, and put it towards other suspension items.

What else do you reccomend?

[Powershift03]

What else do you reccomend?

Looking at the mods in your sig... your on the right track in thinking a Panhard bar. Do a Torque arm at the same time. Your Fox will handle INSANE with those two mods. It will feel like a totally different car!

MM can make you a nice package deal on a Panhard Bar, Torque Arm, and Subframe Connectors (or any other combination of parts). Just call up the shop, and ask for Jason.

Here is a link to some of the Panhard / Torque Arm kits already put together... the most basic kit is only $774.98 (but you still need to have subframe connectors too)...
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_5

[mustangfreak]

alright so its better to install the torque arm and phb at the same time? And I'm about to order subframe connectors do I get standard ones or full lenght?

[Powershift03]

Yes, best results are to do all 3 (Panhard bar, Tq Arm, and full length subframe connectors) at the same time. You can then ditch your upper control arms, as they are no longer needed.

Call MM when you place your order, and ask for Jason. He is the tech guru at MM, and will answer anything you need to know. He can make you a deal on all 3 parts too. Chuck (the owner), and Jason (the Mgr) are both experts on all that is suspension.. and great guys.

Oh, and tell them I told you to call. :burn:

[mustangfreak]

Alright what do they know you by? So I could tell them you reccomended me

[foxforce1]

those guys have some of the best tech support in the business. It's always good to improve the rearend of your stang first. Noticeable (and cheap) front upgrades would be poly endlinks, poly swaybar bushings, and aluminum solid rack bushings. Very noticeable difference and won't break the bank. I also got their solid steering shaft, but that's a lil pricier.

[mustangfreak]

Ya they're cool people I talk to them when I got my cc plate prop valve and rear shocks. Another question by installing the phb and torque arm does this delete my rear sway bar?

[Powershift03]

Alright what do they know you by? So I could tell them you reccomended me

I'm Brian, and I work there part time when home from deployments.

[mustangfreak]

Oh right on ill let them now you you referred Me I'm Jose btw

[foxforce1]

You keep your swaybar. You will also need new rear springs if you get their torque arm. I've had their torque arm springs for almost 2 years now. Been lagging on finally getting the tq arm lol.

[mustangfreak]

So I can't use the ones I have Will they interfere? Like. It. Won't bolt on

[foxforce1]

you can use your old springs but it won't be optimal. The complete suspension has to work together for best results.

[mustangfreak]

Oh alright well ima start off with the phb and sub connectors

[Edgar]

If you're going to drag race, do not buy that crap. But if you're going to be going on the roundy round then go right ahead.

[Powershift03]

If you're going to drag race, do not buy that crap. But if you're going to be going on the roundy round then go right ahead.

Crap? Are you kidding me? LOL

That so called "crap" does nothing but HELP. And, for a daily driven car, it will make it handle with MUCH more expensive vehicles... and still do great at the drag strip.

I've driven enough mushy, crap handling, drag suspension Fox cars on the street to know cars which have a so called "road race" suspension are WAY better.

I doubt he swapped out to 4 wheel disc brakes, and his other suspension mods, to make it a dedicated drag strip car. That's not a knock against drag race cars, or drag oriented suspension either. But.. for a 95% street driven car, it makes NO sense to build a pure drag strip based suspension.

If you still don't believe me... here is a bit of info on the subject...
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=tech_rear_susp_ta

[mustangfreak]

You right it won't be a dedicated drag car I drove my friends coupe on the freeway wich is set up for drag and man you can't take any kind of turn with out swerving all over the place

[Edgar]

Crap? Are you kidding me? LOL

That so called "crap" does nothing but HELP. And, for a daily driven car, it will make it handle with MUCH more expensive vehicles... and still do great at the drag strip.

I've driven enough mushy, crap handling, drag suspension Fox cars on the street to know cars which have a so called "road race" suspension are WAY better.

I doubt he swapped out to 4 wheel disc brakes, and his other suspension mods, to make it a dedicated drag strip car. That's not a knock against drag race cars, or drag oriented suspension either. But.. for a 95% street driven car, it makes NO sense to build a pure drag strip based suspension.

If you still don't believe me... here is a bit of info on the subject...
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=tech_rear_susp_ta

Dude, a torque arm is not for drag racing period. And I have a drag suspension on my car no sway bars etc., I drive it everyday on the highway with no complaints. I'm not going to start whinning about my car ridding a little bumpy or rough like a bunch of you do here. This guy asked for feedback, and I gave HIM MY feedback.

[Powershift03]

Dude, a torque arm is not for drag racing period.

Seeing as how you don't have one... I'd say your not qualified to say it's not going to work at the track. A torque arm gives a Mustang the most grip possible, meaning traction. Ask Jose how well his car hooks.

Plus, he (the OP) already said his car is not a dedicated track car. Get over it.

[Jose]

Not to get off OP topic/question.

But I will say a few more things about using mm for street/strip.

The tq arm even the heavy duty one has its limits. Its not made for setups over 900rwhp depending on gears etc.

Now the benefit with mm setup is, that people who want to drive their mustang as a dd can take it to the track and perform well with it. I'm not sure if you can milk a 1.3 60ft like a full drag race setup.

MM made their setup to be an all around setup for us. I'm cutting 1.6's with my setup, and I'm still learning my setup. I know I can get a 1.5 out of it with more seat time.

Again if your going to drag race 100% then no MM would not make sense.

But if you want an all around setup to corner carve and race, mm is a great choice.


Thanks

[cobrakidz]

These threads are for people to post their opinions, no need to get upset over someones suggestion. :grouphug:..I appreciate it when people give their 2 cents worth, they may not all agree on the same thing but at least it gives me a direction to go in.

[Novanutcase]

Brian has a ton of experience in both disciplines and has the credentials to prove it. Do you?

Show us the PSCA trophies that you've amassed over the years so that we can take you seriously.

What a douche.......:sAng_jackinbox:

That being said, OP? I think that Jose is testament to the real world use of a TA/PHB for drag racing but I will add one more thing. Since this won't be a dedicated drag car and will be driven on the street a MM TA/PHB will also raise the fun meter a few notches just cruising around carving through corners.

John

[mustangfreak]

Ya I ended up getting the phb and will be installing it next. Weekend =)

[Jose]

Ya I ended up getting the phb and will be installing it next. Weekend =)

Im sure you will be happy with it :04:

[mustangfreak]

Yup can't wait to get it done and take it the canyons I'm also gna install some poly spring isolators since img going to in there might as well couldn't hurt right:wink:

[foxforce1]

:facepalm-1:

[foxforce1]

clean it up, Jose. thanks!

[Brandon]

Whoa whoa whoa what did I miss here

If this is a street/strip car, aka not a car for road racing, forget about the torque arm period.

[mustangfreak]

Ok car is mainly going to be my dd for now but I do want to do a lil bit of drag and twisties. And even once I get another dd and I do more mods the car is never going to be a dedicated track car it will never stop seeing the st. Maybe a weekend only car but not a trailer queen

[foxforce1]

Whoa whoa whoa what did I miss here

If this is a street/strip car, aka not a car for road racing, forget about the torque arm period.

you ever driven or been in a car with a torque arm?

[Brandon]

you ever driven or been in a car with a torque arm?

You ever raced at a drag strip enough to know anything about drag racing?

[foxforce1]

My suggestion is relative to what the OP intends to use the car for. A panhard bar only setup will cause some bind according to MM techs. Still a lot better than the stock setup. The ideal setup is to also include a tq arm at the same time or later down the road as budget permits. My car sees the street a lot more than the track, so I can speak from experience about the panhard bar. The tq arm will definately be going on as well. The car will handle WAY better on the street and 60 foots will improve at the track over a stock setup.

You lose, Brandon. Again.

[mustangfreak]

I don't wana mix and match brands but I found a griggs torque arm for a decent price what do you guys think?

[Brandon]

My suggestion is relative to what the OP intends to use the car for. A panhard bar only setup will cause some bind according to MM techs. Still a lot better than the stock setup. The ideal setup is to also include a tq arm at the same time or later down the road as budget permits. My car sees the street a lot more than the track, so I can speak from experience about the panhard bar. The tq arm will definately be going on as well. The car will handle WAY better on the street and 60 foots will improve at the track over a stock setup.

You lose, Brandon. Again.

I think you are misconstruing what I said....Torque arm = road racing.

Seeing that you once said that the goal of drag suspension is to "lift the front tires", need I say more? ahahahahah

[foxforce1]

Sorry, never said that. Come at me with facts for once. Good rear grip is very helpful in launching a car at the track OR the street. A torque arm can do that and is a good idea because the OP already HAS a panhard bar. Try to keep up and stay on topic please.

[Brandon]

Yes you did Ren....I guess it's pretty convenient for you to deny it or forget it though since you now know how wrong that is. But it's cool....I make mistakes too.

[Novanutcase]

Brandon,

Out of respect to you and the knowledge and dedication that you've had in the mustang community I will politely disagree with you. A TA/PHB, although not the ideal setup for drag only can certainly pull some pretty decent times as it will locate the rear end and keep wheel hop to a minimum although that also involves some other components that are working with it.

Traditionally, a TA/PHB has been used mostly in circle track and road racing and has certainly proved it works well and is easy to dial in.

The OP stated that he wanted to OCASIONALLY hit the track and, as most people usually do, drive the car on the street for the majority of the time. The TA/PHB will allow him to be able to corner carve AND pull respectable times down the strip so that is why many of us have suggested that he go that route. NOW.....if he was going to run the car as a "Track Only" car and he was competing in a class then certainly there are better ways of setting up the car to hook but the difference is so nominal that it would only matter if he was, in fact, competing.

I would liken it to someone that rips out their entire interior, A/C and whatever other creature comforts that the mustang offered as stock in the name of weight savings. The difference in time would really only matter to someone that is competing.

John

[Brandon]

Good points. But what I mean is unless he is going road racing, I think it would handle perfectly fine on the street with a good set of UCA's and LCA's instead of a torque arm. Sure a torque arm would do more good than bad compared to the factory suspension but I don't see the need for a torque arm. Sure the OP can get one....and I think he would be happy either way. Maybe if he is looking to do some "performance" driving on the street lol

[foxforce1]

Brandon, he already bought a panhard bar. He is halfway there already for the rear suspension. Why not get the tq arm (down the line) and complete the switch to a 3 link? Again, because he already HAS the panhard bar.

[Jose]

Good points. But what I mean is unless he is going road racing, I think it would handle perfectly fine on the street with a good set of UCA's and LCA's instead of a torque arm. Sure a torque arm would do more good than bad compared to the factory suspension but I don't see the need for a torque arm. Sure the OP can get one....and I think he would be happy either way. Maybe if he is looking to do some "performance" driving on the street lol

Brandon

Some of us have a PHB/TQ Arm setup and we speak from experience.

Its easier to say you think something might not work without giving it a chance.

[Brandon]

Brandon

Some of us have a PHB/TQ Arm setup and we speak from experience.

Its easier to say you think something might not work without giving it a chance.

I'm not saying it "won't work"...besides, did you forget what people said on WMD about your torque arm?

Go ahead and buy that torque arm since you have all the other goodies lined up alrady

[Sal]

Damn drag racers.......:whistling:

[Brandon]

I guess what's happening is all of us have a different interpretation of the term "what works."

If your defination of "works" is to be able to hook on slicks and have little to no wheel hop and etc., then yes of course a torque arm would "work". A lot of combinations would "work" if thats the case. Like John said, a torque arm is not ideal for drag racing but it CAN hold it's own on the track. So I guess in essence, it "works." All I am saying is if this is a street car driven by a driver who likes to drag race and take it out to the strip occasionally, you could do just great without a torque arm.

OP, go ahead and buy it since you have all the other parts needed for it. At the end of the day i'm sure you will still be happy since it would "work" at the strip.

[fastferndog]

Ok, back to original post,.... the T/A will complement the panhard bar and as a side
benefit it will also help in braking. How u ask? very simple, when u brake the nose likes to take a dive and the rear will raise, (sound familiar with drag suspension?) the T/A will keep the rear down allowing a more balanced brake feel (especially FOXES'). So for a fun street car, with limited drag racing it will work probably the best than just the usual upper and lower control arms. I may not be a hardcore drag racer but i have used both
and I would say IN MY OPINION OF COURSE, I preffer the t/a panhard set up over the usual upper and lower c/a. I'm by far no expert just my opinion based on my own experience.

[mustangfreak]

Thanks for the input

[Jose]

Ok, back to original post,.... the T/A will complement the panhard bar and as a side
benefit it will also help in braking. How u ask? very simple, when u brake the nose likes to take a dive and the rear will raise, (sound familiar with drag suspension?) the T/A will keep the rear down allowing a more balanced brake feel (especially FOXES'). So for a fun street car, with limited drag racing it will work probably the best than just the usual upper and lower control arms. I may not be a hardcore drag racer but i have used both
and I would say IN MY OPINION OF COURSE, I preffer the t/a panhard set up over the usual upper and lower c/a. I'm by far no expert just my opinion based on my own experience.


Fern

Installed my MM setup, and he know's a few things about our Mustangs :ford:

[Jazzer The Cat]

I have spoken to John Griggs specifically on the issue of a WL or PHB with TA combo for the strip (talkin' 1/4 mile here, so we are all on the same page) The TA is absolutely ideal for such use and an improvement over the UCA set-up of the SN95/Fox suspension system. Griggs installs their Severe-Duty TA on 8 second drag cars and is an improvement to be sure and holds up under the grip needed to achieve an 8 second 1/4. Remember... tis GRIP that beats up suspension, NOT HP.

Jazzer :)